The future of the H920 serie and Yuneec products for photo & video activities area ?

Discussion in 'H920 Hexacopter' started by Denis56, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Denis56

    Denis56 Moderator
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    #1 Denis56, Dec 6, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    Hi,

    [​IMG]
    The H920 Plus is not accept Yuneec GB603 gimbal to carry others cameras like GH4, Sony Alpha 7 serie.
    For the Yuneec GB603 gimbal you have 2 versions:

      • first and old version only fit for Panasonic Lumix GH4;
      • second and last version, fit with Panasonic Lumix GH4 AND Sony Alpha 7 serie with IR cable.
    The Tornado H920 is unfortunately a poorly finished product by Yuneec and is about to be abandoned (H920 and H920 Plus) seemingly to focus on the new Typhoon H520 product for industry activities.

    The Yuneec GB603 gimbal is very poorly designed because it allows to use very few optics for Panasonic Lumix GH4 or Sony Alpha 7, because of the diameter of the ring where the optics must pass is strait.
    Unless you transform and custom it or use another gimbal better perform like the Gremsy gimbals, with the Tornado H920: GREMSY | Advanced brushless gimbal

    You can do this if you work in pairs for Gremsy gimbal. Drone pilot use the ST24 to control the H920, and cameraman use DJI controler via LightBridge 2 or Futaba controler, to control the Gremsy gimbal. Gremsy gimbals support SBUS, SPEKTRUM/JR, PPM, and following controlers too: Futaba T14SG, Spektrum DX6i, Taranis, etc.
    [​IMG]

    The Tornado H920 Plus only accept CG04 camera (light Panasonic Lumix GH4 by Yuneec). But, GH4 is an old product. Today you have the new Panasonic Lumix GH5 !

    With custom and modified Yuneec GB603 gimbal, you can bring new Panasonic Lumix GH5.

    [​IMG]
    The T3 Gremsy gimbal currently supports cameras with a maximum depth of 100 mm (measured from the center of gravity), a maximum height of 120 mm, and a maximum width of 152 mm. The maximum payload of T3 is 1.7 kgs (3.75 lbs). Gremsy T3 Camera Compatibility List (non-comprehensive list):
    Gremsy T3 - Gremsy
    BlackMagic Pocket, BlackMagic Micro Cinema Camera
    • Canon 5D Mk I, II
    • Nikon D810, D800, D500, D5
    • Sony A7S (mk I - II), A7r (mk I - II)
    • Sony A6000, A6300, A6500
    • Panasonic GH3, GH4, GH5
    • Pentax
    • ....
    Yuneec would in my opinion make a mistake to abandon the Tornado serie (H920 & H90 Plus) which are products that could excel with some modifications. The photo and video have never been the strong of Yuneec, unlike the drone itself for its quality in flight. For example, a simple piece of plastic like a lens hood would significantly improve the quality of the CG02, CGO3 or CG03 + cameras, with angles close to the sun. All serious photographers use this accessory with wide-angle optics. Yuneec would do well to hire professionals photo and video specialists to develop their products for the photo and video activities areas. For me, the new H920 is suitable only for inspection and industry sector of activity. Unfortunately, Yuneec also does not know how to listen to the expectations and needs of its professional customers in the photo and video industry.

    I dream, for example, of a Tornado H920 Plus and gimbal, which could be controlled with two ST16S and which could have a CG05 camera (light Panasonic Lumix GH5 by Yuneec) or Gremsy T3 gimbal, either, depending on the needs of the filmmaker or the photographer.

    The Inspire 2 of DJI even if it is not perfect has a beautiful technological advance in term of sensor for the industries of the video and the photo. Furthermore, DJI has bought the Swedish Hasselblad company, a leading photo company in the professional medium format since before the second world war:
    https://www.hasselblad.com
    https://www.theverge.com/2017/1/10/14213742/dji-acquire-majority-stake-hasselblad-drone-camera

    Yuneec with new H520 copter and E90 camera is limited to a sensor of 1 inch equivalent to the Phantom 4 Pro ! Nothing revolutionary unfortunately in terms of photo and video quality.
     
  2. PatR

    PatR Moderator
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    Nice system break down Denis. I had a conversation with Yuneec CS today that did not go into as much depth but provided an assessment similar to yours. The investment to update the 920 to correct minor deficiencies and expand capability would be minimal compared to what has been poured into the 520, which has not been coming off the shelves in high numbers. Some similar attention to the Typhoon H would cause those owners to develop a higher level of product assurance with Yuneec, encouraging them to hang in there and upgrade their H-480 systems as new products and features were released. For them to do that they need to be informed or potential upgrades and feature expansions. There have been none of those since March.

    While most companies try to diversify their customer demographic in order to capture greater market share it seems Yuneec desires to severely limit the number of potential buyers by focusing on an over priced photogrammetry rig that requires two different cameras if the owner has need to perform inspection work and photogrammetry or video. I don't know who they used for the market research for this platform but whoever it was, was certainly myopic and customer exclusionary in their reporting.

    Unless new developments appear in the next several weeks we might consider the Typhoon H as a "dead" platform. The last official attention the H-480 was provided occurred in March of 2017 with the b30 firmware update. That's 9 months where nothing has changed at the consumer level of Yuneec's product line aside from the Breeze, which is not a product that will carry a company. Nine months of zero information relative to product improvements or expansion is an eternity in consumer drones. In the same period of time their prime competitor announced and released 3 products, got caught up in a multilevel military ban, has modified their firmware several times, and improved the camera on their best selling product.

    If Yuneec is doing any market research I'd sure like to know where they are looking as they do not appear to be listening to the people that have been buying their products. Those are the same people that would buy more Yuneec products if they met a significant portion of the customer expectations. It's the repeat customers that carry a company, not the new ones.
     
  3. Denis56

    Denis56 Moderator
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    Hi Pat,

    I agree with you. And this observation is made with great regret ! Yuneec's commercial policy gives the impression of having no coherence over the long term and changes like a sailing ship that changes edge to windward. It is a huge waste while Yuneec had good results with good technology in terms of drones.

    Today, Yuneec joins the logic of DJ modeled on Apple marketing which is to change very often products and no longer make compatible old products with new. For example, if the Yuneec E90 camera was compatible with the Typhoon H480, which is technically possible, I am sure that many costumers would have bought at first, to buy a little later H520 copter.
    That's what happened when the Yuneec CG03 camera arrived on the market, with a commercial update for those who had a CG02 and Yuneec Q500 copter.

    In addition, Yuneec does not care about the expectations of their customers, the information sent to their team does not go back and it does not take into account past mistakes to progress, which is a shame.

    Without questions, it's the fall in the end. DJ has a great boulevard to thrive, with no serious contender to date.
     
  4. HarveyH54

    HarveyH54 Active Member

    I think Yuneec would do best, by focusing on the drone aspect, and leave the gimbal/camera choices up to the consumer. Just make the drone as compatible with as many available cameras on the market, as they can, from adapters to software patches, so the consumer can use what they like best, know best. An amature will make do, with what they have, but professionals tend to get kind of picky, and don't often agree on what's the best, for particular projects, not to mention brand loyalty. They can still offer a stock camera option, but should open it up to other options. A lot of customers will be fine with stock options, but they'll attract a lot more interest, if you could use what you already have, or the tools you really want and need for the job.
     
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  5. Denis56

    Denis56 Moderator
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    #5 Denis56, Dec 7, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    Hi Harvey,

    When you are not a specialist in a field (photo, video for example), you try to become one by giving yourself the means or you associate with a photo, video specialist company.

    The CG04 camera created in association with Panasonic was a good idea. But with many buggs at the beginning (RAW file can't be read, problem to bind ST24 with copter...), too few firmware updates, no follow up afterwards. The technology of photo / video sensors evolves very quickly and you have to be responsive. Today, you have the Panasonic Lumix GH5, with more possibilities in photo and video:
    https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dc-gh5

    Otherwise, the Tornado H920 was sold, without camera, with the Yuneec GB603 gimbal and ST24, at a price too high (near € 5000 - US $ 5800), more with CG04 camera (near € 6000 - US $ 7000). At the time, DJI was offering its Inspire one, a relatively revolutionary drone, but a quadricopter, with more integrated camera, but with lower quality, above all, cheaper and with more versatility ... Today, you could find Tornado H920 Plus with ST16+ & CGO4 camera (equivalent of Panasonic Lumix GH4) nine, near € 2599 - US $ 3000 (-50% off compared to the beginning of the Yuneec Tornado H920 product life with ST24) .

    Yuneec Tornado H920 and H920 Plus were poorly adapted to the locales regulations in Europe. Given its weight of 5 to 6 kg, it would have been necessary to sell an optional parachute rescue system, mandatory for example, in France to work in urban agglomerations as a professional drones operator.
     
  6. PatR

    PatR Moderator
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    France did no favors with their parachute requirements for heavier multirotors. In so doing they prevented the use of Cinestar/Radian, Alta/Movi, and every other superb quality cinema rig on the market. Making the situation worse is parachute recovery systems don't do all that much to minimize injury of people on the ground. All of them are sized too small to reduce descent speeds to low energy levels.
     
  7. Denis56

    Denis56 Moderator
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    #7 Denis56, Dec 7, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    Hello Pat,

    All emergency parachute systems need to be tested in real situation before approval by French DGAC authority, with a video supporting it before, with the copter. So that's not theory, it's verified in real practice. You could find some video examples online:


    Example of video test in real situation for DJI Inspire quadricopter (4 kg) with an emergency parachute before approval for S3 scenario (flights in agglomerations aeras).

    Then, I think, the objective of drones manufacturer is not to judge the legitimacy of a regulation, but to facilitate the work of the professional drones operators, with theirs products, who are confronted with this regulation. Sales depend on this factor too. There is no point in having a quality drone, if it can not be used legally or with reduced applications. If an emergency parachute option had been proposed with the Tornado H920, it is the work in agglomeration which became possible in France with Tornado H920 serie....

    This is exactly the same problem when the regulation requires detailed specifications of drones (max. wind limit of use, motor power....) to wrote an practical manual of operations with drone or to present European certificates of conformity if you have a control by the authorities. The choice is quickly made when it is difficult to find theses informations and others (DJI for example) provide it. This has changed only very recently about the Yuneec copters. Today European certificates of conformity are offered for download in PDF format, on the Yuneec website ...
     
  8. PatR

    PatR Moderator
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    Just as a public service thing, Microsoft's Photoscape still processing program reads the CGO-4/Lumix RW2 files just fine. The other Windows photo readers do not, even after downloading the RW2 codec.
     
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  9. Denis56

    Denis56 Moderator
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    Hello Pat,

    Today, to work, many professional photographers use Adobe Lightroom. Some use Capture One, or Affinity or Raw Therappee or Photoshop softwares to process their RAW files...GPS infos are not in the EXIF informations of the CGO-4/Lumix RW2 files to localize the place of pictures...

    A number of details are not finished and have not been tested seriously to facilitate the work of the professionals who were intended for the CG04 camera and unfortunately very few corrections updates have been made since the beginning of Tornado H920 life.
     
  10. PatR

    PatR Moderator
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    With the understanding we are pretty much in agreement where Yuneec has failed with not just the 920, but with the H-480 as well, we might consider those making the "pre-packaged" equipment we are buying want to sell us things they can make the most money on, and control not only what we get and how it's used, but also to limit the addition to or expansion of their equipment to only those items the original manufacturer makes and sells. For whatever reason, Yuneec has demonstrated they are slow to develop new products and those that are typically are under developed at the time of release. DJI does much better in developing new products but has a long history of releasing those products before they have been fully tested, leaving the buyers to find and illuminate the issues only to see them corrected in the next new product release, which they have to buy to make use of. If you desire true versatility we have only custom rigs or DJI's prohibitively expensive M series systems to make use of. Those using a DJI platform but choose to employ better camera payloads the adaptation process is both expensive and difficult. You are also locked in with their corporate policies and software restrictions, not to mention bearing the liability of assuring proprietary customer data is secure. The custom rigs are also quite expensive and present their own set of limitations. The best custom rig I've found that provides wide payload flexibility runs over $8,000 U.S. dollars, before adding for the payload.

    Could Yuneec do much better? Absolutely but we are dealing with a foreign business mind set, one that micromanages and in so doing rejects ideas and concepts not their own and bottlenecks development progress. They still have the opportunity to make a few small changes in existing equipment to vastly expand functionality, and in turn increase customer loyalty and support, which in turn elicits sales, but that window of opportunity is shrinking with every passing hour. For the moment it seems the focus is more on down sizing and minimizing expenditures, things that are usually crontrary to expanding product development and improvement.

    As for EXIF geo data, such is necessary only for certain types of applications. I bought my 920+ knowing the data would not be present but as I do not perform thermography the feature was not critical. Some inspection work I do does require EXIF geo data but the use of a CGO-3 camera fitted with an 8.25mm lens provides a more than acceptable image with EXIF geo data. I'm still looking for the one camera that comes out of the box doing all that I'll ever need it to as is. The 920 is, for me, just another tool in a box containing a lot of different tools. I would like to see it do more but I do not hold any hope that Yuneec will see fit to allow it to. When the warranty runs out it will be modified as needed to do things it cannot do now.
     
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